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Wolf4o March 27, 2012  
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Posted by hellangeliv View Post
No i dont know if you're talking about my talents. My talents are fine.
Your talents are fine, but show another build. I'd for example wont put points in point of no escape and fill up the talent for 3% agil.



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Sapphire March 27, 2012  
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Posted by hellangeliv View Post
No i dont know if you're talking about my talents. My talents are fine.
Don't mind him. There are many different ways to spec Survival. Obviously, your build is intended for damage output. You can generally set Survival talents up in three directions, which all can still vary depending on your gear. These three directions are damage, survivability, and utility.

- Damage builds are most commonly used in battlegrounds, or in 3's. The reason for this is that in battlegrounds, you have everyone else on your team that acts as a meat shield. In 3's, you have two partners to help peel (you should be trying to peel the enemy off on your pet or a melee teammate, if you have one), and you'll usually have a healer on the team.
- Survivability builds aren't very common at all, and when they are, they are usually used for being able to "solo". By this, I mean go it alone in battlegrounds or world PvP.
- Utility builds are likely the most common Hunter build. These builds focus on crowd control, such as traps and certain shots. These builds are also usually the ones used by Hunters most commonly seen "soloing" a battleground effectively.

The primary difference I see between Survival and the other two specializations are these stated talent build types. Marksmanship has no trouble setting up for damage or utility, but has a hard time setting up for survivability, as most of Marksmanship's survivability should come from utility. Beast Mastery is great for damage, also. It is also great for survivability, but it is hard to set up for utility. Survival, unlike the other two specializations, has the ability to go after any of the mentioned talent build types rather easily.

If I were to make a survivability build, it would probably look like this. Starting from the top, I'll explain the discrepancies between the two builds for everyone to see.

- I do not invest points into Improved Tracking simply because it is a very small increase in damage, and damage isn't the goal of my build.
- Surefooted I like because a snared Hunter is likely a dead Hunter, and reducing these effects adds to their survivability.
- I didn't get a full 3/3 Trap Mastery because I feel that 2 points is enough to achieve what I want.
- The difference between useful points and wasted points in Thrill of the Hunt relies on two things. First, do you really need Sniper Training? The agility you gain from this talent will rise as your gear improves, definitely. But again, I felt that these points, and the ones I would invest in Thrill of the Hunt could be put to use elsewhere. Four talent points for 2% agility increase isn't worth it in my eyes. Secondly, the actual usefulness of Thrill of the Hunt depends on your crit percentage, and your target's resilience. This talent is nothing more than mana efficiency, and you can often use Aspect of the Viper to regenerate your mana pretty quickly. If you have a fairly high amount of crit and maximum mana, then you can invest less points in this talent.
- I have Improved Concussive Shot for a slightly more lengthy daze effect. It helps a little with kiting and peeling.
- Focused Aim is useful if you are under the hit cap (and still useful against classes with talents that increase their chance to be missed), and decreasing the pushback on your Steady Shot is great, but the actual usefulness of the pushback resistance varies with how often you actually use the shot.
- I didn't pursue Marksmanship talents further, and invested them in Beast Mastery instead, for greater survivability.
- Don't invest points into Improved Aspect of the Monkey. While this aspect may be effective against certain melee classes, like Rogues, it will only get you killed by a Warrior even faster. Use Aspect of the Hawk while fighting a Warrior, so that you don't get Overpowered. This greatly reduces the value of the talent, since you should never invest points in talents just to counter a single class.

All of that being said, I'd like to suggest that for the sake of the guide, you explore each of the talent build types, provide information on them, and how to best put them to use. It isn't ever a good idea to link one talent build and say "Use this one.", because the people who read the guide are just learning to play like you, instead of learning to place the spec as a whole.



Edited: March 27, 2012
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Wolf4o March 27, 2012  
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Posted by Grace View Post
Don't mind him.
Eew... was this about me :?

Posted by Grace View Post
All of that being said, I'd like to suggest that for the sake of the guide, you explore each of the talent build types, provide information on them, and how to best put them to use. It isn't ever a good idea to link one talent build and say "Use this one.", because the people who read the guide are just learning to play like you, instead of learning to place the spec as a whole.
@hellangeliv - Thats what i mean when i said "needs different spec", you cant simply put 1 build that u use and say use this one, as mentioned there are different specs that are viable. Didn't expect an answer such as "i dont know what you're talking about" Lol.



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Sapphire March 27, 2012  
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Posted by Wolf4o View Post
Eew... was this about me :?
I meant that he shouldn't take offense.



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hellangeliv March 27, 2012  
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Posted by Grace View Post


All of that being said, I'd like to suggest that for the sake of the guide, you explore each of the talent build types, provide information on them, and how to best put them to use. It isn't ever a good idea to link one talent build and say "Use this one.", because the people who read the guide are just learning to play like you, instead of learning to place the spec as a whole.
Good point i'll add Utiliity and survivability to my guide.
---------------------------------
Fixed, all of the different tree's survival can dip into has been added.
Along with examples of them.



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Headrocker March 30, 2012  
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Im leveling a hunter and i want to do a Survival, because its more versatile for me. I play a little with SV hunter in another server and i like it.

But i need to know... whats the best weapon and trinkets for a hunter surv in patch 3.3.5?

Armor penetration is good to SV hunter too, or no? I really dont know yet.

Weapon, is it better a (CRIT + ARP) or (CRIT + HASTE)?

Trinket: DBW / STS or another with CRIT stat focus?

:confused:



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Wolf4o March 30, 2012  
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Posted by Headrocker View Post
Im leveling a hunter and i want to do a Survival, because its more versatile for me. I play a little with SV hunter in another server and i like it.

But i need to know... whats the best weapon and trinkets for a hunter surv in patch 3.3.5?
:d well polearm from lk and crossbow from lk 25

Posted by Headrocker View Post
Armor penetration is good to SV hunter too, or no? I really dont know yet.
Auto shots aimed shots and steady shots benefit from arp, but stings and explosive not.


Posted by Headrocker View Post
Trinket: DBW / STS or another with CRIT stat focus?:confused:
Death's verdict.



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Nippur March 30, 2012  
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Posted by Wolf4o View Post
Death's verdict.
I'd prefer WFS (Whispering Fanged Skull, Lady deathwisper 10 man), or now that ICC HC is open, WFS HC. The amazing 1200 AP proc can be timed with a proper L&L proc to ensure a nice burst.



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Kayoh March 31, 2012  
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Posted by hellangeliv View Post
Deathknight These guys may be a bit harder than the warrior but nothing you cant handle. Most will try to slow you and force you to use disengage so they can pull you, dont let his happen. When the duel starts put down a frost trap. Once you're slowed use masters call and begin to kite, you should know what skills to use Black Arrow>Explosive shot>Aimed shot blah blah blah.
Some will get desperate and then death grip you, disengage and kite. The DK will be dead in secs.
For one, a good Death Knight never grips you till you Disengage. Even if they're desperate, they will never grip you. (Unless he is a complete scrub)

What I suggest when you are really feeling the pressure and the DK hasn't gripped yet:
"Disengage --> Deterrence --> /cancelaura Deterrence". That way when you disengage, their grip gets deflected straight afterward.

Note that a DK's AMS can cut your Explosive Shots and traps, turn it into RP so just watch out for that.



Posted by hellangeliv View Post
Deathknight These guys may be a bit harder than the warrior
These guys are insane and annoying as hell.



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hellangeliv March 31, 2012  
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Posted by Kayoh View Post
For one, a good Death Knight never grips you till you Disengage. Even if they're desperate, they will never grip you. (Unless he is a complete scrub)

What I suggest when you are really feeling the pressure and the DK hasn't gripped yet:
"Disengage --> Deterrence --> /cancelaura Deterrence". That way when you disengage, their grip gets deflected straight afterward.

Note that a DK's AMS can cut your Explosive Shots and traps, turn it into RP so just watch out for that.





These guys are insane and annoying as hell.
Shouldn't be too difficuktbif you knowhow to control em. Yes a good dk wouldn't grip you until toy disengage, but what choice will they have if they can't hit you. Now a very good dk will be able to apply pressure, keep you slowed, and close to him. Disengage,deterrence, then concussive shot will get you back at a good distance. When using deterrence though make sure you are facing the bk when he attempt to grip you, if your back is facing him the grip will get you. Dk's can be difficult but as long as you know how your skills work you can counter them.



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Vocaloids April 4, 2012  
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My personal SV build is mainly for pvp.

I like SV for pvp because not only does it make me a little harder to cut down then MM and BM but more importantly it offers stun attacks such as scatter shot and wyvern sting to hold the enemy in place. I also like to take extra points into improved concussion shot (bottom tier MM) to help this even further. The idea I go for is using anything I can to hold the enemy at range as long as possible so I can shoot them to death. MM hunters may put out more damage then SV but if the enemy has an easy time getting you into close range you are just plain dead.

There is no one perfect build for SV. If there is a trick you don't tend to use to keep yourself alive (such as you not being a trapper for example) then you are better off taking talents away from that skill and putting it into your dps as this will help you kill faster.

I will however, offer you a build I think every SV hunter should look at. Below I have posted the Max DPS build for SV from hunters union (I saved this before it was removed for cata content on my pc).

( Edit: was looking over my files and realized that I have the wrong build for pve recently. This build has increased range and hunters union never advocated using these talents. I am trying to find the correct build in my files. I think this got this when I was looking up a pvp build for myself and I fear I may have lost the pve build image I had. I will look around my files and the web for now. While I am at it I think I will collect some cata builds as well before the huge pandaria update)



You may ask "but this is a pve build not pvp". However, my counter argument is that anything not going into giving you enhanced stings/traps ect. should go into your dps and knowing the best talents to help you max your dps will help you a lot when creating your own personal sv pvp build as in the end we still are a dps class. My personal pvp buid is a highly edited variation of this build.

Also, For those who want to see it. This link leads to the armory and my personal talent builds.http://armory.molten-wow.com/charact...thwing/?group=. You can try my build out for yourself if you want, but know that it focuses more on my play style. Your play style may be different and you really should focus on talents that enhance how you play.

Lastly, to the author I want to thank you for suggesting aimed shot glyph. I was thinking freezing trap was not such a good glyph and I wanted to change it out but I didn't know what I should consider trying so I have been keeping it for far to long. I think I will buy aimed shot glyph next time i'm in the AH and try it out for myself.



Edited: October 4, 2012
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hellangeliv April 5, 2012  
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Posted by yodaflyz View Post
My personal SV build is mainly for pvp.

I like SV for pvp because not only does it make me a little harder to cut down then MM and BM but more importantly it offers stun attacks such as scatter shot and wyvern sting to hold the enemy in place. I also like to take extra points into improved concussion shot (bottom tier MM) to help this even further. The idea I go for is using anything I can to hold the enemy at range as long as possible so I can shoot them to death. MM hunters may put out more damage then SV but if the enemy has an easy time getting you into close range you are just plain dead.

There is no one perfect build for SV. If there is a trick you don't tend to use to keep yourself alive (such as you not being a trapper for example) then you are better off taking talents away from that skill and putting it into your dps as this will help you kill faster.

I will however, offer you a build I think every SV hunter should look at. Below I have posted the Max DPS build for SV from hunters union (I saved this before it was removed for cata content on my pc).



You may ask "but this is a pve build not pvp". However, my counter argument is that anything not going into giving you enhanced stings/traps ect. should go into your dps and knowing the best talents to help you max your dps will help you a lot when creating your own personal sv pvp build as in the end we still are a dps class. My personal pvp buid is a highly edited variation of this build.

Also, For those who want to see it. This link leads to the armory and my personal talent builds.http://armory.molten-wow.com/charact...thwing/?group=. You can try my build out for yourself if you want, but know that it focuses more on my play style. Your play style may be different and you really should focus on talents that enhance how you play.

Lastly, to the author I want to thank you for suggesting aimed shot glyph. I was thinking freezing trap was not such a good glyph and I wanted to change it out but I didn't know what I should consider trying so I have been keeping it for far to long. I think I will buy aimed shot glyph next time i'm in the AH and try it out for myself.
Aimed shot glyph is a big helper, for me anyway some people may think "meh its only a few secs" but that makes a huge difference when trying to put out as much damage as you can in pvp and the 50% healing debuff isnt half bad either. good luck on your hunter nice build btw.



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hellangeliv April 21, 2012  
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*UPDATE* guide has been updated added a section to "duels" for pallies as per request, still being updated and repaired. Be patient my fellow hunters.



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Nippur April 21, 2012  
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Thumbs up! I've played SV since i hitted 80 and saw the amazing skills it had.
I'd like to add the combo i play for arena, and considered one of the best for SV hunters: Resto druid+ Survival hunter.

For this partner i suggest you the SV spec of my hunter: http://armory.molten-wow.com/charact...wing/?group=2/
This spec takes replenishment to help your druid in case of a mana figth. The druid must be specced agrresive resto (Insect Swarm spec) to help you get a kill. It must be careful when puttin Moonfire or Insect swarm on a target, because all CCs that SV hunters have break on dmg. So, a DoTed target is not able to be CCed by you.

Tips agains Healer+dps combos: Scatter>Trap>Cyclone x2 on healer, then your druid Cyclones x3 the dps to prevent incoming heals. After the 3rd cyclone on the dps, your Freezing Arrow should be ready again (22 sec CD), so, trap the healer. When trap fades, your scatter has returned. Scatter > Wyvern > Cyclone x2 the healer. If this CC chain isn't enough to kill its partner... you have some serious dps problems.

If you need to CC a target that has Serpent sting, you can remove it with Viper or Scorpid sting to remove the DoT.
Viper sting > Scatter > Trap is an excellent way of draining a healer without letting him cleanse the sting.
Imp. concussive shot followed by a Wing Clip is a permanent Daze on a target, remeber that if your partner needs to gain distance.
Serpent Trap screws dispelling classes, as the serpents aply 1598624 debuffs on the target.


Hope it helps to make this guide more complete, edit anything if you want.



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hellangeliv April 21, 2012  
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Posted by Nippur View Post
Thumbs up! I've played SV since i hitted 80 and saw the amazing skills it had.
I'd like to add the combo i play for arena, and considered one of the best for SV hunters: Resto druid+ Survival hunter.

For this partner i suggest you the SV spec of my hunter: http://armory.molten-wow.com/charact...wing/?group=2/
This spec takes replenishment to help your druid in case of a mana figth. The druid must be specced agrresive resto (Insect Swarm spec) to help you get a kill. It must be careful when puttin Moonfire or Insect swarm on a target, because all CCs that SV hunters have break on dmg. So, a DoTed target is not able to be CCed by you.

Tips agains Healer+dps combos: Scatter>Trap>Cyclone x2 on healer, then your druid Cyclones x3 the dps to prevent incoming heals. After the 3rd cyclone on the dps, your Freezing Arrow should be ready again (22 sec CD), so, trap the healer. When trap fades, your scatter has returned. Scatter > Wyvern > Cyclone x2 the healer. If this CC chain isn't enough to kill its partner... you have some serious dps problems.

If you need to CC a target that has Serpent sting, you can remove it with Viper or Scorpid sting to remove the DoT.
Viper sting > Scatter > Trap is an excellent way of draining a healer without letting him cleanse the sting.
Imp. concussive shot followed by a Wing Clip is a permanent Daze on a target, remeber that if your partner needs to gain distance.
Serpent Trap screws dispelling classes, as the serpents aply 1598624 debuffs on the target.


Hope it helps to make this guide more complete, edit anything if you want.
ah yes thank you for reminding me, i was meaning to put a "Arenas" section here, ill be sure you add your post for those interested in doing resto dudu/sv hunt.



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