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mattcham March 4, 2012  
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Here's a guide for Vote Points and Healer Priest (Holy or Discipline spec) PVE for WoW version 3.3.5a. Please feel free to share any suggestions if you are experienced with Healer Priests.

I often run out of mana. Do I need more Intellect or Spirit? Do not gear for intellect if you are often running out of mana. Gear for spirit instead. Spirit generates mana during combat and you basically want your in-combat mana regeneration to be as high as your in-combat mana expenditure. You can do this by increasing spirit and also by reducing the mana cost of your spells using certain trinkets. Also be aware that intellect can regenerate mana faster than spirit if mana percentage restoration buffs are in effect (e.g. Replenishment, Shaman mana tide totem, Priest shadowfiend, etc).

Haste vs Spirit for newbies: If you keep running out of mana, get more Spirit. If you have too much unused mana during combat despite healing the party nonstop, then get more haste. Haste will allow you to cast heals faster which will also use up your mana faster.

Spirit vs MP5 for newbies: Spirit and MP5 are similar and both of these stats will regenerate mana during combat, even while casting spells. Most items with MP5 are either plate or mail armor, thus NOT usable by a priest. However certain items like cloaks, trinkets, necklaces, and rings contains MP5 which WILL work fine on priests. In WoW Cataclysm, Mp5 no longer exists and all items with Mp5 got converted into Spirit. Also read the next post in this thread by Amples for more info.

Legend:
VP = vote points
S = spirit stat
S/VP = (spirit)/(vote point) ratio. Higher number means more spirit per vote point. This does NOT mean that an item with higher S/VP ratio is superior since you have to take other important stats into account, such as haste, spell power, critical strike, intellect, number and color of gem sockets. S/VP ratio is simply provided to help you decide which items will give the most spirit per vote point, and to help you address any out-of-mana problems.

Head:

Crown of Luminescence (VP=89, S=70, S/VP=0.79)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45497

Consider the Helm of Clouded Sight (item level 245) http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=47694 or Hood of Clouded Sight http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=47695 which you can buy from Dalaran Cloth Quartermaster for 75 Emblems of Triumph (easy grind via Pit of Saron farming).

Shoulders:

Mantle of Dissemination (highest Critical Strike rating) (VP=61, S=52, S/VP=0.85)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=40555

Amice of Inconceivable Horror (highest Haste, but lowest Spirit) (VP=61, S=42, S/VP=0.69)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=46068

Mantle of the Unknowing (highest Spirit, especially if you gem for it) (VP=61, S=62, S/VP=1.02)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45514

Mantle of Wavering Calm (balanced between Spirit and Haste) (VP=61, S=62, S/VP=1.02)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45253

Soot-Covered Mantle (contains Hit which is useless to a healer but useful for your off-spec DPS) (VP=61, S=49, S/VP=0.80)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45186

Consider the Stiffened Corpse Shoulderpads (item level 264) http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=50449 which drops frequently during ICC rep farms and also sold at Auction House for around 20,000 to 25,000 gold.

Wrists:

Grasps of Reason (VP=47, S=48, S/VP=1.02)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45446

Consider getting the Royal Moonshroud Bracers (item level 245) http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=47588 which is frequently sold in the auction house for between 40,000 to 50,000 gold.

Hands:

Handwraps of the Vigilant (VP=65, S=51, S/VP=0.78)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45520

Chest:

Mord'rethar Robes (VP=107, S=86, S/VP=0.80)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=50213

Consider getting the Royal Moonshroud Robe (item level 245) http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=47605 which is frequently sold in the auction house for between 60,000 to 80,000 gold.

Waist:

Starwatcher's Binding (VP=88, S=64, S/VP=0.72)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45619

Legs:

Leggings of the Demonic Messenger (for Alliance only) (VP=107, S=86, S/VP=0.80)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=47620

Legwraps of the Demonic Messenger (for Horde only) (VP=107, S=86, S/VP=0.80)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=47865

Consider getting the Lightweave Leggings (item level 264) http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=49892 which is frequently sold in the auction house for between 190,000 to 210,000 gold.

Feet:

Boots of Fiery Resolution (VP=65, S=64, S/VP=0.98)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45135

Consider the Sandals of Consecration (item level 264) http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=49893 which is frequently sold at Auction House for around 120,000 to 140,000 gold.

Back:

Sunglimmer Cloak (VP=47, S=48, S/VP=1.02)
http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=45618

Neck:

Sapphire Amulet of Renewal (VP=47, S=47, S/VP=1.00)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45243

Ring:

Don't get from vote shop (easy grind for the Ashen Verdict ring and Kirin Tor ring). You can also buy rings from the Dalaran Quartermasters using Emblems of Triumph obtained by farming the Pit of Saron.

Staff:

Staff of Endless Winter (VP=109, S=84, S/VP=0.77)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45457

The Lifebinder (more Haste but less Spirit) (VP=107, S=80, S/VP=0.75)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45479

Icecore Staff (will have the most Haste if you socket two Quick King's Amber gems into it) (VP=107, S=84, S/VP=0.79)
http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=45886

Wand:

Scepter of Creation (has the most spirit) (VP=30, S=25, S/VP=0.83)
http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=45170

Petrified Ivy Sprig (less spirit, but can add Haste if you socket a Quick King's Amber gem into it) (VP=77, S=22, S/VP=0.29)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45294

Quartz Crystal Wand (contains Hit which is useless for healer, but useful for your off-spec DPS) (VP=77, S=24, S/VP=0.31)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45257

Consider the Brimstone Igniter http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=47658 which you can buy from Dalaran Emblem of Triumph Quartermaster for 25 Emblems of Triumph (easy grind via Pit of Saron farming).

Trinkets:

Show of Faith (VP=59, S=0, S/VP=N/A)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45535

Spark of Hope (VP=53, S=100, S/VP=1.89)
http://www.openwow.com/?item=45703

Titan-forged Rune of Alacrity (for more haste, and doubles as a PVP trinket) (VP=75, S=0, S/VP=N/A)
http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=46085

Abyssal Rune (for more haste, and doubles as a DPS trinket) (VP=72, S=0, S/VP=N/A)
http://wotlk.openwow.com/?item=47213

[Please reply with corrections, suggestions, or just to say thanks!]



Edited: September 7, 2012
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Amples March 4, 2012  
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Some of those things assume that it's on a high-rate server (such as crafted ones). On a low-rate server such as Frostwolf, Ring of the Kirin Tor is an expensive one, and it's much better to have a Royal Moonshroud Bracers crafted or a Stiffened Corpse Shoulderpads bought than buying Ring of the Kirin Tor (unless you vote for the ilvl 200 version first). Heck, based on the prices, you could almost buy 5 Primordial Saronites now when you get a Ring of the Kirin Tor purely through gold (not to mention that you could get a ilvl 245 ring with EoTs)!

Also, for Holy Priests, Spirit is vastly better (so much that you should try to keep MP5 at a minimum), thanks to talents that rely and improve the value of Spirit. For Discipline, MP5 is slightly better (I take Spirit because Holy is my offset for when Clov is on his priest :p), and just pick the MP5 section when you search the items section (assuming you're purely Disc, as if you've got Holy offset as I do or you play Holy from time to time, then take Spirit; it won't kill you).

My suggestion: Vote for the belt (although the PoS HC drop is decent and better itemized due to Haste, but no sockets), boots (same as with the belt), trinket(s) (for pure throughput, Illustration of the Dragon Soul is great, and it doubles as a pretty good DPS trinket until you can get DFO/PotNL), weapon (Icecore Staff is better than Staff of Endless Winter for an intermediate Priest, due to Haste), wand (if you have the VPs to spare, Scepter of Creation is a very good one for just 30 VPs), and wrists (same as the belt and boots).

Anyway, thanks for the effort of putting this up, and this should shut up those frequent VP item questions



Edited: March 4, 2012
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ashcze March 5, 2012  
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THx for do this ! awesome



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mattcham March 9, 2012  
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Posted by mihazemx View Post
The best thing you can get from votepoints is item level 239. SO put item Level 239 and press Search.
But doing that will give you many results, many of which cannot be used by priests. Furthermore, many items (e.g. healer chest cloth) are not available as item level 239 from the vote shop.



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nRRe April 1, 2012  
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Bump, so i don't have to goto page 3 to see this

also, where does The Rapture fall in there.



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Furiianda April 1, 2012  
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TL;DR you actually should consider gemming for intellect for regen, especially if you run a group where the Replenishment buff is present.

Posted by mattcham View Post
I often run out of mana. Do I need more Intellect or Spirit? Do not gem or gear for intellect if you are often running out of mana. Gear and gem for spirit instead. Spirit generates mana during combat and you basically want your in-combat mana regeneration to be as high as your in-combat mana expenditure. You can do this by increasing spirit and also by reducing the mana cost of your spells using certain trinkets.
Posted by ElitistJerks 3.3 theorycrafting thread for holy/disc priests
XII. c) Value of Intellect and Spirit
One of the big questions many priests ask is "how much spirit / intellect should I have", with the secondary question "where is the point at which it makes sense to stop stacking one and start stacking the other". As mentioned above, each gives some side benefits that must be considered.

First, realize that regardless of Discipline or Holy, every point of spirit is effectively equal to 1.155 spirit, thanks to 5% from Enlightenment / SoR and 10% from Blessing of Kings. Disc gains an additional 0.011 spirit for every point from Enlightenment. Similarly, for a Holy priest, every point of Intellect is equal to 1.1, while for Discipline, each point is equal to 1.265, thanks to Mental Strength and Blessing of Kings.

Now, the conversion numbers are as follows:

1% crit = 166.67 intellect
1 intellect = 0.1875 Mp5 (Replenishment)
1 intellect = 0.208 Mp5 (6 minute fight, mana pool size)
1 intellect = 0.104 Mp5 (6 minute fight, shadowfiend)
1 intellect = 0.145 Mp5 (Meditation, 1200 spirit assumed)
1 spirit = 0.313 Mp5 (Meditation, 1400 intellect assumed)
1 spirit = 0.25 spellpower (Holy, Spiritual Guidance)


Since 1 intellect = 1 spirit (effectively) for ilvl points spent, we really have no loss in gaining one versus the other. The exception to this rule is in considering gear that has no spirit on it, as those items are in much much higher demand, especially by dps casters (for cloth items) and by all casters and healers (for necks, rings, and trinkets, along with weapons). You will find it much easier to pick up spirit items than non-spirit, simply because of that competition. Thus, I am going to assume that any item you grab is a spirit+int item, just for sake of argument. When this is true, the minimum gearing you will be at, fully raid-buffed (25-man), in Ulduar/ToC/Emblem of Triumph epic pieces, will be 1300 intellect + 1300 spirit. This is, of course, assuming full enchants, and all raid buffs possible, along with consumables.

Now, here's the hard part. How do we model crit rating as a regen mechanic? For holy priests, every critical Renew, GHeal, Binding Heal or Flash Heal results in +50% spirit regen for 8 seconds. Thankfully, the new Rapture mechanics are much easier to model than this; the old Divine Aegis model was very hard to tweak.

Holy Crit
Every percent to crit grants an additional chance to proc Holy Concentration. Best case, we cast ~ 50 Binding Heals per minute, which grants us 100 chances to gain HC. Worst case, let's ballpark and say we only cast 10 Flash Heals and other, non-proc'ing spells over the course of the minute. Thus each percent to crit grants us a ballpark of 0.45 HC procs per minute, or roughly 2.7 procs per boss fight (6 minute length).

If we assume that we're running 1200 spirit / 1400 intellect, then our spirit-based regen is 750 Mp5, so a HC proc gains us +375 MP5 for 8 seconds. Of course, this is OO5SR regen, so we may only gain half of this possible 600 mana. Let's assume 80% of the time, we don't manage to get OO5SR for any of the savings; 20% the time we do, for the final 3 seconds. This gives an average return on a proc of 323 mana.

Thus every percent to crit is worth approximately 12 Mp5 in terms of Holy Concentration gains. This converts to 0.08 Mp5 per point of intellect from critical gains.

Disc Rapture
Rapture gains are now based around PW:S absorbs only; no critical strike basis whatsoever. Let's assume we get a fully absorbed PW:S every 12 seconds, granting 2.5% of total mana. If we assume a total mana of 25,000, then Rapture gains maximize at 260 Mp5.

Given that you may be tank healing, you can assume a single PW:S fully absorbed every 15 seconds (Weakened Soul), so 4 procs per minute. Thus, 10% of your total mana per minute regen from Rapture, or 208 Mp5. We can easily assume 200 Mp5 from Rapture without being out of line.

Overall Regen Gains: Holy
Spirit: 0.362 Mp5 per point
Intellect: 0.792 Mp5 per point
(1 raw point; gearing, buff, etc; then scaled by other buffs and talents)

Overall Regen Gains: Disc
Spirit: 0.365 Mp5 per point
Intellect: 0.817 Mp5 per point

Thus, no matter what gearing you go with, [b]there's almost no point in socketing spirit for regen ever again[/v]. There is a point if you are looking to maximize your OO5SR / Holy Concentration benefits and also scale your spellpower. As holy, one of the biggest reasons we stay competitive is Spiritual Guidance. In the pure spellpower race, without SG, we lag behind the shamans, paladins, and druids significantly. This is why it's definitely still worth taking the spirit+int items, even if you choose not to socket spirit at all.
Source



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nRRe April 1, 2012  
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What kind of stats/gear score should I be looking at before healing heroic 5 mans?

I think right now, self buffed i was at something like 750int and 835 spirit, with 1456~ spellpower, at a 2.8k Gear Score.

actually i'll just start a new thread...



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mattcham April 2, 2012  
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Posted by Furiianda View Post
TL;DR you actually should consider gemming for intellect for regen, especially if you run a group where the Replenishment buff is present.

Source
Interesting article with a lot of truth to it. However the article makes no distinction between in-combat and non-combat situations. I have the add-on called "All Stats" which reports the in-combat and non-combat mana regeneration rates. I tested by using an item socket. When I plug in a +20 spirit gem, the reported in-combat mana regen is higher than if I plug in a +20 intellect gem in that same socket. I didn't do any manual calculations and am simply relying on All Stats which I hope is correct. Of course, this could all change depending on buffs that are present. Certain buffs and spells that regen a percent of your mana pool (such as shadowfiend) rather than a precise quantity of MP5 will favor intellect gems.

I do recognize your point, so I have reworded the OP to state "gear for spirit" rather than "gear and gem for spirit".



Edited: April 2, 2012
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Furiianda April 3, 2012  
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Posted by mattcham View Post
Interesting article with a lot of truth to it. However the article makes no distinction between in-combat and non-combat situations. I have the add-on called "All Stats" which reports the in-combat and non-combat mana regeneration rates. I tested by using an item socket. When I plug in a +20 spirit gem, the reported in-combat mana regen is higher than if I plug in a +20 intellect gem in that same socket. I didn't do any manual calculations and am simply relying on All Stats which I hope is correct. Of course, this could all change depending on buffs that are present. Certain buffs and spells that regen a percent of your mana pool (such as shadowfiend) rather than a precise quantity of MP5 will favor intellect gems.

I do recognize your point, so I have reworded the OP to state "gear for spirit" rather than "gear and gem for spirit".
Not true, you're just searching for the wrong terms.

"In combat" and "non-combat" are actually the cataclysm versions -- in all previous expansions there was the "five second rule". Cataclysm changed it to one solid regeneration value inside combat, and one outside of combat. Previously you would regain mana at a much faster rate if you stopped casting for 5 seconds, which is why it's called the five second rule. Also helpful to mention is that Xperl shows the 5 second rule on your unit frame, one of the things I like about it (so many cool features!)

Search the page for OO5SR ("outside five second rule", or 5 seconds or more since you last cast a spell) to see what they have to say about it. It's under the Holy Concentration section of the post I quoted.

Although they mostly disregarded it, as the five second rule is used a little in the older raids (for example the phase break between Malygos, or the burst healing/recession of damage in Ulduar -- Sindragosa also has a phase break) but in general there's less room for it in ICC. It also depends a lot on the presence of the Replenishment buff.
If you're not going to have the replenishment buff Intellect is worth significantly less, however it's unlikely in any raid due to how easy it is to find Replenishment!



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mattcham April 4, 2012  
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Posted by Furiianda View Post
Not true, you're just searching for the wrong terms.

"In combat" and "non-combat" are actually the cataclysm versions -- in all previous expansions there was the "five second rule". Cataclysm changed it to one solid regeneration value inside combat, and one outside of combat. Previously you would regain mana at a much faster rate if you stopped casting for 5 seconds, which is why it's called the five second rule. Also helpful to mention is that Xperl shows the 5 second rule on your unit frame, one of the things I like about it (so many cool features!)

Search the page for OO5SR ("outside five second rule", or 5 seconds or more since you last cast a spell) to see what they have to say about it. It's under the Holy Concentration section of the post I quoted.

Although they mostly disregarded it, as the five second rule is used a little in the older raids (for example the phase break between Malygos, or the burst healing/recession of damage in Ulduar -- Sindragosa also has a phase break) but in general there's less room for it in ICC. It also depends a lot on the presence of the Replenishment buff.
If you're not going to have the replenishment buff Intellect is worth significantly less, however it's unlikely in any raid due to how easy it is to find Replenishment!
I think we are talking about the same thing. By "in-combat," I meant "while casting" and by "non-combat," I meant "while not casting". The "while-casting" and "while-not-casting" mana regen rates are reported by the add-on called All Stats. In my test, the +20 spirit gem had a higher "while casting" mana regen rate than the +20 intellect gem, but I agree that would change depending on what buffs or spells are present. It costs gold to run actual tests at different scenarios as the old gem is destroyed when you socket a new one, so I only tested it once in a priest-only buff situation which could also explain my observation. Shaman mana tide totem and Priest shadowfiend will increase the value of intellect over spirit, and we are in agreement on this, but IMHO these buffs only last a few seconds and have long cooldowns, so for the majority of battle duration these buffs are not in effect. One last point I wanted to make is that this guide was designed for folks whose gear are below item level 239 (WoTLK vote shop cap). At that gear level players are mostly doing POS farms or RDF HC, and not receiving the replenishment buffs that are more consistently encountered in larger end game raids.



Edited: April 4, 2012
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Sanadan April 5, 2012  
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Anyone know of a good bis list? Gonna donate for oath binder for my main and that will leave me with 32 coins to spare. Figured my healer (holy) could get treated to a gift



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Furiianda April 5, 2012  
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Sanadan -- maybe consider getting the Greatstaff of Antonidas (not sure of the exact name), BiS staff... I guess. It's a bit hard to say what is BiS for a healer. (: It's not like there's one stat you want to stack all the time, as you want a balance between thoroughput and regen, as well as random other stuff (haste cap) You should download AtlasLoot and just explore some of the drops in ICC25 heroic, probably. I recommend getting some of the cool trinkets (such as Althor's Abacus) or that weapon from LK that makes your GS look good (or both!) The abacus drops from Gunship too, which (if I remember right) is bugged here? So you wouldn't be able to obtain it legitimately -anyway-...

Posted by mattcham View Post
I think we are talking about the same thing. By "in-combat," I meant "while casting" and by "non-combat," I meant "while not casting"
[cut]

One last point I wanted to make is that this guide was designed for folks whose gear are below item level 239 (WoTLK vote shop cap). At that gear level players are mostly doing POS farms or RDF HC, and not receiving the replenishment buffs that are more consistently encountered in larger end game raids.
Yes, we ARE talking about the same thing, that was exactly my point. And it's DEFINITELY covered in the ElitistJerks thread. Anyway, you seem to have missed my point on that, so I'll just kinda skip that section of your post (no offense or anything, but you know clearly people don't see eye to eye sometimes). Also, you can just look in your character window for casting/not casting regen rates, there's no need for this addon called Allstats.

Anyway, decent point about people doing mostly heroics then... but, having a priority for intellect or spirit doesn't really matter that much then, because heroics are really easy and don't require the min/maxing of stats that raids do. Fights are also a lot shorter and you can just stop and drink if your regen is that bad (and if your tank isn't a total jerk who keeps pulling no matter what)
So maybe talking about which gems are best for heroics is kind of pointless. That's the main reason why I don't really mention it and just skip to what would be most beneficial in a raid encounter. (:
At the very least, would you mind adding Replenishment to your list of things that maximum mana improves? It's pretty major compared to the others (just one-time per fight cooldowns).



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Sanadan April 5, 2012  
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Thanx man, I will look into both. Could you check my char? Can't link as I am on a phone atm but it's "tsunadeh" on ragnaros. I am getting the t10 gloves next and the t9 armor. Also show of faith from the go shop shortly



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Furiianda April 5, 2012  
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Posted by Sanadan View Post
Thanx man, I will look into both. Could you check my char? Can't link as I am on a phone atm but it's "tsunadeh" on ragnaros. I am getting the t10 gloves next and the t9 armor. Also show of faith from the go shop shortly
Hmm, Show of Faith? Interesting. Why not pick up the Spark of Hope? It's cheap VP (you can see it's recommended in this thread too) and it's the best trinket for mana efficiency until the Solace of the Fallen (ToC25 trinket, don't recall the exact name).

...Oh, wait, it's a spellpower/MP5 cross. My mistake. (; If that's what you're after, go for it, I just love the Spark of Hope. If you're fine for Mp5/in-combat regen stuff then it's (show of faith) a great middle-ground trinket.

P.S. Get a more stylish shirt. (;
Oh and maybe buy the Ring/Loop/thing of the Kirin Tor, easy to make money on Sargeras amirite?



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Sanadan April 5, 2012  
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Thanx m8, Will get that Purple stylish shirt got about 400k so I looked into the kirin tor ring but it lacks haste



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